OT: Techies Help!! Serious Buzz/Hum Noise Problem

sleejay · Post by **sleejay** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:54 am

Heya

Long post here, but bare with me and help me out because it's about making(or not making) my dream buy...

I'm looking into the Bad Cat "Classic Cat".
http://www.badcatamps.com/badcat_amps.html

I went to the local store in Tokyo last night and tried this amp out. Tone was spectacular, and everything about it was just perfect for me, and I'm on the verge of making it mine - but one thing is bothering me - SERIOUS, irrational amount of buzz/hum noise!!

When I was on a Single-Coil, I could hear the noise even when I was strumming hard. And that's alot of noise.

When I was on hum-canceling halftone (I use a Fender MIJ Mustang), most of the noise is gone, but HUGE noise when I took my hands off the strings. That's reasonable for any guitar/amp, but the AMOUNT of noise... seemed irregular.

Tried the amp with an overdrive pedal - so much noise it was unusable.

I tried the "Cub II", also by Bad Cat, and pretty much the same amount of noise.

There was nothing about the building that would cause such noise. I actually played 2 different Classic Cats, each at a different store, and I got the same amount of noise.

Now let me tell you, I know how much noise my guitar usually gives out, and I've played on various amps - Roland JC, Marshalls, Fenders, Ketner, Orange, and my current amp is Orange Rockerverb 50. Not this much buzz/hum noise on any of these.

But one similar experience popped up in my head: when I played the Vox AC15, very cranked. The Classic Cat was also very cranked. With the amps mentioned above, I rarely get above 5/10 on volume or gain.

AC15 and Classic Cat are "Class A"(I believe) one-volume amps, while the others are "A/B"(as far as I know) and have gain & volume knobs.

Those are clear differences between the "noisy" and the "not-so-noisy".

Sorry for the ramble, but here's my question:

Are lower-wattage, one-volume amps like AC15 and Classic Cats REALLY noisy when they're cranked? Is it just the way it is with these types of amps?

Or is there somthing wrong here?

Kind of dissapointed, because I thought boutique amps like Bad Cats would be really quiet.

Neiloler · Post by **Neiloler** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:17 am

Gain is amazing in the way that it picks up "stray radio waves" and amplifies them a bunch. There's a reason why guys who play with SUPER HIGH amounts of gain also have a noise gate. If you stick a noise gate in the chain, or if you just turn the amp on without a guitar plugged into it with the same settings, does the amp still hum like crazy? If so, it would seem to be an amp problem. If not, then it wouldn't be the first time that a high-gain amp has made a small shielding "leak" (lack of shielding somewhere) into a BIG problem.

sleejay · Post by **sleejay** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:31 am

Neil, thanks, but the Classic Cat is not high gain at all - probably less gain than an AC30.

Ok, here's another way to ask this quesion:

Would an AC30 hum and buzz like crazy when it's fully cranked?

"Crazy", meaning noticeable level when playing live
Or to an un-recordable level

sleejay · Post by **sleejay** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:54 am

anyone?

ESBlonde · Post by **ESBlonde** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:13 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sleejay
 anyone?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes.

The thing is you are asking the valve circuits to exceed there design parameters and go into clip/overdrive/distortion whatever you want to call it. This creates limitations and also allows the circuits to create their own noise to be amplified. Even the TT with gain cranked gets noisy irrespective of the volume setting and Lord help you if you sit beside the TV with a strat cranked into a TT (don't ask how I know:D). The old classic Strat into an AC30 wound up sounds so sweet, but in the flesh it buzzes in a way that today seems unacceptable, not to mention the feedback likely as you bend over the combo to knob twiddle. You can control it some but it's not easy. Humbucker guitars are much better but not immune.

As pointed out gates can be your friend but if it can be heard over your strumming, you will have to trade gain/overdrive for silence.

HTH

BListic · Post by **BListic** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:58 pm

have you noticed this on multiple models??? is anyone else thinking grounding issues??

Neiloler · Post by **Neiloler** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:56 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ESBlonde
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sleejay
 anyone?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes.

The thing is you are asking the valve circuits to exceed there design parameters and go into clip/overdrive/distortion whatever you want to call it. This creates limitations and also allows the circuits to create their own noise to be amplified. Even the TT with gain cranked gets noisy irrespective of the volume setting and Lord help you if you sit beside the TV with a strat cranked into a TT (don't ask how I know:D). The old classic Strat into an AC30 wound up sounds so sweet, but in the flesh it buzzes in a way that today seems unacceptable, not to mention the feedback likely as you bend over the combo to knob twiddle. You can control it some but it's not easy. Humbucker guitars are much better but not immune.

As pointed out gates can be your friend but if it can be heard over your strumming, you will have to trade gain/overdrive for silence.

HTH
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Good point. Most amps while they do have the max on all the knobs, aren't necessarily designed to run with everything on max...

sleejay · Post by **sleejay** » Thu May 01, 2008 4:04 am

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it!!
Bare with me folks, because I'm just trying to get a picture of how hand-wired low-watt amps are when they're cranked. Never really had that experience.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ESBlonde
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sleejay
 anyone?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes.

The thing is you are asking the valve circuits to exceed there design parameters and go into clip/overdrive/distortion whatever you want to call it. This creates limitations and also allows the circuits to create their own noise to be amplified. Even the TT with gain cranked gets noisy irrespective of the volume setting and Lord help you if you sit beside the TV with a strat cranked into a TT (don't ask how I know:D). The old classic Strat into an AC30 wound up sounds so sweet, but in the flesh it buzzes in a way that today seems unacceptable, not to mention the feedback likely as you bend over the combo to knob twiddle. You can control it some but it's not easy. Humbucker guitars are much better but not immune.

As pointed out gates can be your friend but if it can be heard over your strumming, you will have to trade gain/overdrive for silence.

HTH
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So, do you think that the Bad Cat "Classic Cat" is acting the way it's supposed to? If you tell me that this amp is so "boutique" that it beautifully amplifies ALL the frequencies, including the hum/buzz ranges, it would kind of make sense.

Plus, it only has ONE KNOB, just volume, and it was pretty much maxed out.

If the AC30/15 would do this (hum/buzz like crazy) maxed out, no reason this amp wouldn't.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by BListic
 have you noticed this on multiple models??? is anyone else thinking grounding issues??
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've tried 2 different Classic Cats, both in a different building (different shop). Also tried the Cub II, a different amp by Bad Cat. Same amount of buzz/hum.

Now what are you referring to by "grounding issues"?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Neiloler
 
Good point. Most amps while they do have the max on all the knobs, aren't necessarily designed to run with everything on max...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hmm, but I highly doubt Bad Cat, with their prestige in tone, would make anything that would go out of hand when cranked up. I mean it's a one-volume one-tone amp, seems like it's supposed to be played that way.

sleejay · Post by **sleejay** » Thu May 01, 2008 4:09 am

Some additional info here,

The Bad Cat Classic Cat, cranked, even gave out POP! POP! kind of sound when I touched the strings.
Not to mention the unbearable amount of hum/buzz when I wasn't touching the strings.

Even the AC15 cranked didn't give out this POP noise.

My current amp, RV50, would be rather quiet even with the clean channel fully cranked.

What's wrong with these Bad Cats??????

Bentfinger · Post by **Bentfinger** » Thu May 01, 2008 5:27 am

Try it with just a guitar and cord, no fx, etc. If it buzzes, try a different gtr, and cable, still buzzes, got a problem

sleejay · Post by **sleejay** » Thu May 01, 2008 6:13 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bentfinger
 Try it with just a guitar and cord, no fx, etc. If it buzzes, try a different gtr, and cable, still buzzes, got a problem
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Tried with no FX, different guitar, everything. Just about the same amout of noise.

But then, tried a different Bad Cat model - still the same amount.

Does that mean that all Bad Cats are extremely noise-amplifying?

xTRUTHOFMYYOUTHx · Post by **xTRUTHOFMYYOUTHx** » Thu May 01, 2008 6:32 am

maybe you should try it with a noise gate

sleejay · Post by **sleejay** » Thu May 01, 2008 7:43 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by xTRUTHOFMYYOUTHx
 maybe you should try it with a noise gate
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well that might work covering up the excess noise, but I'm more worried about the actual noise being amplified in such extreme way; a gate wouldn't help much there.

Bladen · Post by **Bladen** » Thu May 01, 2008 9:19 am

Sounds like you tried these amps out in music stores. I feel like there are a lot of things in music stores, especially in Tokyo, such as neon lights, and other random RF signals that get picked up by certain wires running through amplifiers. Shoddy AC wiring can cause the hum too. Are other amps in the store (besides the other Bad Cat models you mentioned) acting up the same way? Maybe there's a new guy on the assembly line at the Bad Cat factory, lead dress can be hard to learn! : )

xTRUTHOFMYYOUTHx · Post by **xTRUTHOFMYYOUTHx** » Thu May 01, 2008 9:27 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bladen
 Sounds like you tried these amps out in music stores. I feel like there are a lot of things in music stores, especially in Tokyo, such as neon lights, and other random RF signals that get picked up by certain wires running through amplifiers. Shoddy AC wiring can cause the hum too. Are other amps in the store (besides the other Bad Cat models you mentioned) acting up the same way? Maybe there's a new guy on the assembly line at the Bad Cat factory, lead dress can be hard to learn! : )
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

thats true. maybe you should ask to try it out in a back room if they have one. so its isolated. i cant even play in my room with my tv on.

OT: Techies Help!! Serious Buzz/Hum Noise Problem

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