How is it that....

airforce_brian · Post by **airforce_brian** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:15 pm

an AD140 produces 140 watts from 4 EL34's and the RV100 produces 100 watts from 4 EL34's? Considering tubes have to be biased so they are running a certain voltage, I would think that any given combination of tubes would produce the same output in any amp. Also, my AD140, while it is very loud, doesn't seem as loud as you would think a 140 watt all tube amp would be.

neonrust · Post by **neonrust** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:24 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by airforce_brian
 an AD140 produces 140 watts from 4 EL34's and the RV100 produces 100 watts from 4 EL34's? Considering tubes have to be biased so they are running a certain voltage, I would think that any given combination of tubes would produce the same output in any amp. Also, my AD140, while it is very loud, doesn't seem as loud as you would think a 140 watt all tube amp would be.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I may be wrong, but I believe difference in wattage has something to do with the size of the Transformers.

Secondly, the perceived loudness of my RV100, to me, is less than every other 100+ watter I've owned. Still F'N loud though!:D[:0]

airforce_brian · Post by **airforce_brian** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:58 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by neonrust
 
Secondly, the perceived loudness of my RV100, to me, is less than every other 100+ watter I've owned. Still F'N loud though!:D[:0]
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I think orange amps are just quieter in general than some other amps. My singers 50 watt vox seems as loud as my AD140.

neonrust · Post by **neonrust** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:08 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by airforce_brian
 
I think orange amps are just quieter in general than some other amps. My singers 50 watt vox seems as loud as my AD140.
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I think so too, but I'll take tone over shear volume any day.

:D

airforce_brian · Post by **airforce_brian** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:15 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by neonrust
 

I think so too, but I'll take tone over shear volume any day.

:D

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Agreed:D

jon reed · Post by **jon reed** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:22 pm

Its weird, i play an AD30R and i've played it in some really loud situations and never had to have the volume above half way.
I cant imagine how loud an 140 watt valve is and i cant imagine any situation where you could have it turned up anywhere near full without everyone screaming at you.

Most of the venues i've played i get asked by the soundguy to turn down till the volume is on about 3... the facists!! of course i always turn back up once the set starts.

drk · Post by **drk** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:06 pm

i think you're confusing something. the volume you get from an amp, doesnt depend only on its wattage, for example you can have 2 head(identical), if you connect them to different speakers, you will have diferent volumes(depending on how efective is the speaker).
hope helped

rrrajo · Post by **rrrajo** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:08 pm

Two Rights! 1. Plate voltage 2. Transformers

Simon Wicks · Post by **Simon Wicks** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:52 am

The wattage of the amp is generally determined by the plate voltage fend to the power tubes as well as a whole host of factors. Its likely that the AD140 is probably 100 watts clean and about 140 watts distorted. The RV100 with be similar. To get 140 watts out of a quad of EL34s, each would have to put out 35 watts of power, which is above their max dissapation. Not even an NOS Mule could withstand the plate voltages needed to do that!

Simon Wicks · Post by **Simon Wicks** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:54 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rrrajo
 Two Rights! 1. Plate voltage 2. Transformers
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Transformers dont really affect that power that much...Take the OR80 and OR120. Exact same transformers, same plate voltages, half the wattage

rrrajo · Post by **rrrajo** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:28 am

Right! You will have to excuse me for being born in the 60's when half of 120 was still 60.
So the Or80 with 100 watt or better transformers should perform more or less the same as a Rv50 with 50 watt Transformers?

Simon Wicks · Post by **Simon Wicks** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:32 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rrrajo
 Right! You will have to excuse me for being born in the 60's when half of 120 was still 60.
So the Or80 with 100 watt or better transformers should perform more or less the same as a Rv50 with 50 watt Transformers?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes but due to the larger transformer, the tone will be different. Its to do with how the core saturates when the amp is wound right up. I'm not to sure myself. You also get increased head-room i believe with less compression. Vintage Orange transformers were always way over-specced hence their generally loud and clean tones.

rrrajo · Post by **rrrajo** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:47 am

Simon,
YOu are right on several counts. The Or80/120 are the same amp minus two tubes. Alot of people use the 3db Rule as illustrating the Difference between Two or Four Output tubes ignoring the respective Outputs. This is a Perfect example. There really would only be a 3db dif between these heads.

However, If you took the OR120 and compared it to say a RV 50 the difference would be greater.

I was tempted to get an Or 120/80 until I Settled for the Stupid Soldano as it were.

I will be on the Lookout for a Retro, AD, or Thunderverb 50 as my next Aquisition.

In any event, I don't believe there will be enough time or money in my Lifetime to Get everything I want.

airforce_brian · Post by **airforce_brian** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:40 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Simon Wicks
 The wattage of the amp is generally determined by the plate voltage fend to the power tubes as well as a whole host of factors. Its likely that the AD140 is probably 100 watts clean and about 140 watts distorted. The RV100 with be similar. To get 140 watts out of a quad of EL34s, each would have to put out 35 watts of power, which is above their max dissapation. Not even an NOS Mule could withstand the plate voltages needed to do that!
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That makes sense to me. So i guess the 140 watts is almost more of a marketing thing then anything. I'm glad that my amp probably isn't producing 140 clean watts, because that would be way too much! Thanks:D

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