Stereo setup worth it?

[Orangesoda]

You'd have to leave them panned left and right to have any stereo effect through the PA when playing through both amps, but then it would sound a little odd/empty when one side drops out if you switch the ABY to only one amp. If you are okay playing through both amps the whole time, which I recommend, then it would be more worthwhile. More amps is better!

For the 'one side dropping out' thing I was going to get my own sound guy in order to have him change it depending on the song so that the 1 amp goes through all the speakers. I might just use both amps all the time then. The thing that I really wanted to have was the option to only use 1 amp for some songs and use the dirty channel on my amp. Poop.

Whoa whoa wait. I confused myself here lol. I am still thinking of running stereo and having most of my sound come from my amps but having them go through all the speakers. I will use 1 amp for some songs but I will remedy the volume drop with a volume pedal. It will be pulled back a bit when both amps are being used and all the way forward when using only one. It will be measured with precision as to not have issues with volumes being off

[sidvicious]

The hate for sound guys makes my tummy tickle. I'll have my own. Jesus.

I'd much rather have control of things with an ABY pedal instead of relying on the sound man to switch things for each song at his end. You'd just have to mic both cabs and tell the sound man not to worry if you switch one off for a song or two.

Also, it doesn't really have to be a spread-out stereo setup for biamping to sound awesome. Pile it up if necessary.

Now here's something to think about. Ok so if I were to instead just do this (mic both amps and have them running through all the PA speakers all the time) will it still have a decent wet stereo sound to it coming out of the PA? Even though I'll try to have most of my sound coming from stage it would still be pretty cool to have a stereo sound coming out of the PA without having to have a sound guy mess with anything.

no, it wouldn't separate. on most boards instruments are on one channel and vocals on the other. there's no way the send distinct signals to the left and right.

[Hubaxe]

Whoa whoa wait. I confused myself here lol. I am still thinking of running stereo and having most of my sound come from my amps but having them go through all the speakers. I will use 1 amp for some songs but I will remedy the volume drop with a volume pedal. It will be pulled back a bit when both amps are being used and all the way forward when using only one. It will be measured with precision as to not have issues with volumes being off

Wow. You're gonna be your own soundguy, and performer at the same time.
I already have issue to play guitar decently

More seriously, on gig place you cannot mesure volume precisely and act from stage. The crowd noise makes is different, you're not alone on stage and the others may vary in volume, etc.
IMHO all this cannot give the expected results. Try it and let us know !

[bclaire]

no, it wouldn't separate. on most boards instruments are on one channel and vocals on the other. there's no way the send distinct signals to the left and right.

Not sure what you mean but on every board I've used, each channel has a pan left/right knob. I can separate whatever I want...

so if I mic two amps that are in stereo I could hard pan one completely left and the other completely right.

[Spaceboy1]

Unless you're running stereo effects or playing house shows as the only guitarist in your band, then a stereo setup is pointless and a hassle. I toured a few years in a three-piece heavy punk band running a dual amp/cab rig and unless we were playing without a PA, it didn't really offer anything I could get from one amp. I scaled back and was much happier.

[baytamusic]

Is this the only show you plan on playing in your entire life? And do you think your sound guy that you have is going to go to every show you play and ask the house guy to run the board? I mean, in some smaller clubs if you tell them you brought your own sound guy and you aren't a fairly known touring national band, they are seriously probably going to either laugh at you, not allow it, more than likely both. And honestly I think they would be right for the most part. I understand what you want to do but I don't think you're going to get predictable, repeatable results, and often times you have like 5 minutes to get on stage, set up, line check all instruments and get on with it. You're going to sound the best with the house guy running sound unless you have someone very good with you.

If this is some one off thing, fine, go for it, but if you're going to be playing out a lot in different locations you're going to run into problems, I can guarantee you that.

Save this stuff for when you're playing huge venues where you really will have your own pro sound guy on tour with you and tons of time for sound checks prior to doors opening, and where you may actually notice something like this.

Not trying to piss you off or rain on your parade, just being absolutely honest with you about how stuff works in the real world when you're playing at small to medium sized rooms on a regular basis. The less crap there is to deal with and worry about, the better you are going to sound and play.

[Orangesoda]

Is this the only show you plan on playing in your entire life? And do you think your sound guy that you have is going to go to every show you play and ask the house guy to run the board? I mean, in some smaller clubs if you tell them you brought your own sound guy and you aren't a fairly known touring national band, they are seriously probably going to either laugh at you, not allow it, more than likely both. And honestly I think they would be right for the most part. I understand what you want to do but I don't think you're going to get predictable, repeatable results, and often times you have like 5 minutes to get on stage, set up, line check all instruments and get on with it. You're going to sound the best with the house guy running sound unless you have someone very good with you.

If this is some one off thing, fine, go for it, but if you're going to be playing out a lot in different locations you're going to run into problems, I can guarantee you that.

Save this stuff for when you're playing huge venues where you really will have your own pro sound guy on tour with you and tons of time for sound checks prior to doors opening, and where you may actually notice something like this.

Not trying to piss you off or rain on your parade, just being absolutely honest with yout how stuff workin the real world when you're playing at small to medium sized rooms on a regular basis. less crap there is to deal with and worry about, the better you are going to sound and play.

I didn't include this info cuz I didn't ask for these specifics but: We've played at this place. They will allow a sound guy, we have plenty of time to setup. Show after that will be many friends at an outside show. We know all the guy organizing everything. Sound guy isn't an issue I already said that cuz I will run everything through the PA with the sound guy not having to do anything lol.

What I'm more interested in is if the sound will not be just a bi-amp sound but if it will still sound stereo-ish. That's mostly it. I don't mind taking 2 amps and setting that up. Every show we've played we've had time for all of that. So if I can get a decent wet stereo sound I will go for it. If running both amps in stereo through all PA speakers and it will sound exactly like bi-amping then that will persuade me to.stay away from it all together. Should be fun to try out

[0000]

To be blunt... Unnecessary and not worth the effort.

[sidvicious]

no, it wouldn't separate. on most boards instruments are on one channel and vocals on the other. there's no way the send distinct signals to the left and right.

Not sure what you mean but on every board I've used, each channel has a pan left/right knob. I can separate whatever I want...

so if I mic two amps that are in stereo I could hard pan one completely left and the other completely right.

you're right. i had something else in mind, and its actually quite simple. bring two in and do whatever.

a lot of the new boards will duplicate buses for a single signal just for that purpose. so, you could bring in a single signal, duplicate it, and add whatever you like in any direction. takes a goood soundman to get this right, though. bring your own or you'll sound terrible because the split has to be custom dialed for the room. and, DON'T request the split signal to be sent through monitors. you'll hairlip the world:)

[Bionic muffins]

the majority of small/medium club PA systems are mono. when I played keys in a band I could run true stereo when we played theaters and big outdoor festivals but otherwise it was all mono. I had my stereo stuff ready to give to the soundman in one decent sized club and he snapped "the PA is in mono. I just need one line." then the more you look around the more this is the norm. giving a soundman a set list to make adjustments per song is asking a lot . once again, the majority of sound men spend the first song dialing in some stuff after a line check and then walk around the room the rest of the set.

for a stereo setup the times its of advantage are...A) kicking in the second amp as a volume boost. B) spreading time based effects C) blending two tones to create one giant tone.

all of which are beyond overkill for any small/medium club, but you could maybe get away with it if they are smaller low wattage amps and you are the only guitarist.

I responded to this old thread because I was just playing stereo in my house thinking it would be cool to have two TT's

[Longer]

Personally, I wouldn't go through the hassle of a stereo setup just for neat stereo effects. Too easy for it to get lost in the mix, and it can bring diminishing returns depending on the hall and the sound guy.

I do run in stereo though!

For me, I get "my sound" from blending 2 amps, and if I'm not happy with my sound, I'll have a crappy show.
I try to make it easy on the sound guy by bringing my own Y'd mic setup, so I only go through one channel. Hard for a sound guy to screw it up that way, because it is treated like one amp.

Ultimately though, do what gets you stoked, it's the best way to perform at your best and enjoy what your doing.

[megalithic]

I think it would be much simpler to run both amps at all times, dual mono when not using stereo effects and stereo otherwise. The soundman could compensate, but he'd have to mess not only with the volumes, but also the panning for the different songs. If this was a recording it would be another case, but it's not. Even if he knows what he's doing it's not that easy, especially if he doesn't know your songs very well.

And anyways you should try this setup in practice before actually going for it in concert.

[everdrone]

at the cost and hassle of setup, I would just buy an axefxII and go direct and help the soundguy

[Ddjembe Mutombo]

So I'm contemplating making a few changes. The money isn't really an issue because I'll be selling some pedals and most of the cost of the new stuff will be covered.

What I'm wanting to do is have a stereo setup when I play for when I play live. But, for example, the next show we will play at has a small stage so I can't really spread out my amps. They will either have to be stacked or right beside each other. Will that effect the 'stereo-ness' (if that's a word lol)? Would it be optimal to separate the amps as much as possible?

This place has a PA. Sometimes I will use one amp at a time and for some songs both amps. So what I'm THINKING is micing both amps, having the sound guy run one amp on the left and one on the right and coordinate with him so that he knows which songs use both amps and which ones use just one amp so he can either run it L and R for both amps being used or run the sound of the one amp being used into all the speakers.

If I'm gonna do this stereo thing I just want to get the full effect. Wanna be certain it's worth the time and effort.

What creates wide stereo image is the differences between your left and right side. If you are just sending one guitar signal into two amps, then it will still sound mono because there are no timing differences between the two outputs. Stereo imaging is actually just an effect our mind hears because it takes a shortcut when deciphering what our ears hear.

I know this flexibility sounds good to you, but you have to consider the vast volume changes that will happen when going between A, B, and Y. The sound guy WILL HATE YOU. His job is to get a level sound, and when you are hopping between amps and pairing them together you will be creating all sorts of levels in the room that he can't adjust. Remember that audiences really don't care about gear. They like stuff that looks nice, but overall they want to hear drums and vocals. If your double amp antics are getting in the audiences way of hearing vocals then you have shot yourself in the foot. Being a guitar player, it is hard to accept that our hard work isn't much appreciated outside of glamorous riffs or solos, but this is how it is.

[megalithic]

What creates wide stereo image is the differences between your left and right side. If you are just sending one guitar signal into two amps, then it will still sound mono because there are no timing differences between the two outputs. Stereo imaging is actually just an effect our mind hears because it takes a shortcut when deciphering what our ears hear.

No, not really. I had recorded with the same amp with a microphone on two different cabs and got a great stereo sound. And what's really cool is that you can use cabs that sound bad by themselves (too bright or too dark for example) and still wind up sounding good.

Basically like using 2 different speakers in a 2x12", but you can pan them all the way and it will sound good.