If I love the TH30 will I like the TH100 (EL84 vs. EL34)?

[Ace.trouble]

Hi!

I had been to my local music store recently to try out a few amps, mainly in search of a great high-gain sound. I had tried some of the usual suspects - Peavey 6505/6534, Marshall JVM, EVH III, Diezel D-Moll etc. - but nothing really wowed me, that is until I plugged into an Orange TH30, switched to dirty channel and hit an E power chord! Instantly brought a smile to my face! I felt that it had those strong, juicy mids I thought the other amps were missing.
I was sceptical about the single "Shape" control on the dirty channel at first, but soon realized that I could easily dial in all sorts of great tones.

Now, I couldn't compare it to the TH100, which I know is basically the same amp with more power and wattage options.
But I was wondering whether the EL34 power section makes a huge tonal difference as opposed to the TH30's EL84s.
I play mostly punk, hard rock and some old school metal by the way.

Also, do you think the TH30's 30 watts would be able to keep up with a hard-hitting drummer and second guitarist (who likes to play 100 watt Marshalls)? The amp sure seemed loud as hell when I played it through a Marshall V30 4x12, but obviously I couldn't test it in a full band setting.

Thank you and kind regards
Josh

[Legend]

I have a few 100 watt heads and play at home. I owned the TH30 and loved it, but I have had a few small watt amps also (Dark Terror-TH30-Mesa Mini Rec). Don't get me wrong the little amps sound great, Just my personal opinion I like 50W-100W. There is a small decrease in loudness with smaller amps but not a ton. Bigger tubes =bigger sound. The reason is they push more air and have a much fuller and bigger sound. My TH100 is on its way they do sound incredible.

[a.hun]

Hi Josh. Welcome to the forum!

You'll get a lot of personal preferences here - of course! But for most people unless needing really clean sounds at high volumes a 30W valve amp through a good cab (eg V.30 loaded 2x12 or 4x12) will go as loud as you'll really ever need on stage. For bigger venues micing up the cab is normal, so 30W is for many plenty for any stage.
http://www.guitarnuts.com/amps/myths.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But yes, some will always prefer the bigness of sound that bigger valve output sections with bigger valves and transformers can get you. Having more power doen't mean you have to use it all of course, but often even at lower volumes bigger amps still sound bigger.

In a band mix though the sounds you need are usually different from what sounds best when playing alone (more mids focussed really). So in this case 'need' and 'want' are two different things...


Andy.

[hitgar]

Hi Josh. Welcome to the forum!

You'll get a lot of personal preferences here - of course! But for most people unless needing really clean sounds at high volumes a 30W valve amp through a good cab (eg V.30 loaded 2x12 or 4x12) will go as loud as you'll really ever need on stage. For bigger venues micing up the cab is normal, so 30W is for many plenty for any stage.
http://www.guitarnuts.com/amps/myths.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But yes, some will always prefer the bigness of sound that bigger valve output sections with bigger valves and transformers can get you. Having more power doen't mean you have to use it all of course, but often even at lower volumes bigger amps still sound bigger.

In a band mix though the sounds you need are usually different from what sounds best when playing alone (more mids focussed really). So in this case 'need' and 'want' are two different things...


Andy.

Hello Josh.

Nice article Andy. Great info.

+1 On the playing alone vs a mix thing. I have had to talk several people into not scooping the mids so much when recording because it just sounds washed out, thin ,and easily gets lost. Also bumping the mids (especially the low mids to my ears) makes the amp sound bigger and the perceived volume goes up as well. I know it has something to do with the frequency range of the human ear but I don't know the specifics.

[Ace.trouble]

Hi! Thank you everyone for the information!

As for clean tone I actually prefer to have a small hint of breakup, think Andy Summers on "Walking On The Moon" or "Message In A Bottle". I tune down a half step to Eb, but I don't need a monstrous bass reponse as I rarely ever touch modern metal territory. I mainly play stuff that's reminiscent of bands like Green Day or The Replacements, that's as heavy as I usually get.

Still, for a little more quid the TH100 seems tempting in case I should ever be in a situation where crystal-clean tones at high volume are desired.
Then again, the TH30's price tag seems ridiculous considering what a great tone comes out of this bad boy and thus almost too good a deal to pass up. So you see my little dilemma there...

As for the EL84 vs. EL34 question, I assume it's not quite a drastic difference, but more a thing of overall feel? From what I can tell by comparing the TH30 to the TH100 (via YouTube clips) they still pretty much share the same distortion characteristics.

By the way, anyone had some experience with the Orange PPC412 Compact cabs? They are quite affordable in Germany. From what I hear those custom Orange speakers are somewhat similarly voiced to V30s?

Kind regards
Josh

[Ace.trouble]

By the way, thanks a.hun for that article http://www.guitarnuts.com/amps/myths.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've read that before, but forgot where. This I need to show to my friend, who just recently said stuff like "In a 2-guitarists band there's no way one can be heard with a 50 watt over the other player's 100 watt amp." or "You should have at least a 50 watt amp for recording in the studio."

I tried to tell him that many professional bands were actually using 15 or 20 watt amps for recording, but he wouldn't have any of it.

[OU818]

Speaking as a man who owns a Hiwatt...

[a.hun]

Speaking as a man who owns a Hiwatt...

Yeah but your Hiwatt in Ozland probably has more room to rip than my Hiwatt in crowded little Flatland...


Andy.

[Les Paul Lover]

Speaking as a man who owns a Hiwatt...

Yeah but your Hiwatt in Ozland probably has more room to rip than my Hiwatt in crowded little Flatland...


Andy.

A couple of my friends have recently moved in next to a deaf person. Their places has become a party place, practice space..... no problems......

[OU818]

Speaking as a man who owns a Hiwatt...

Yeah but your Hiwatt in Ozland probably has more room to rip than my Hiwatt in crowded little Flatland...


Andy.

Actually at home I use a VHT Special 12/20 on 12 watts as I live in an apartment . I only get to bust out the Hiwatt at rehearsals and larger gigs. That being said I am playing a medium club gig this Saturday (VHT) and then racing down the road for a 1 hour set at a Warehouse party with only a vocal PA. That is indeed Hiwatt territory

[Ace.trouble]

Speaking as a man who owns a Hiwatt...

Never actually had the chance to try a Hiwatt myself. I do use the "High White" amp in Guitar Rig sometimes, though, which sounds nice

[jojo68]

Speaking as a man who owns a Hiwatt...

Yeah but your Hiwatt in Ozland probably has more room to rip than my Hiwatt in crowded little Flatland...


Andy.

A couple of my friends have recently moved in next to a deaf person. Their places has become a party place, practice space..... no problems......

[Legend]

I owned the TH30 and bought the TH100 and its allot better for me. I play at home and its just fine they are both loud but I don't need anything to tame this beast. The loudness between the 2 amps is not that significant. I really like the headroom and bottom end in the TH100. It just sounds bigger and beefier...IMO

[jesperbc]

Also, do you think the TH30's 30 watts would be able to keep up with a hard-hitting drummer and second guitarist (who likes to play 100 watt Marshalls)? The amp sure seemed loud as hell when I played it through a Marshall V30 4x12, but obviously I couldn't test it in a full band setting.

I used my AD30 in my band with a not-so-hard-hitting drummer and a 2nd guitar player with a really beefy, booming 120w Bugera amp with a really thrashy kind of distortion going on, and my AD30 would sit perfectly on top of the mix, since I was playing lead and taking up a different part of the spectrum than he was, so no worries, I'd say.