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Overtones/Ghost tones at High Volume

Orange Amps Technical Q&A's

Moderator: bclaire


Post Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:31 pm
Jayson New Member

Posts: 20
Location: USA
Has anyone experienced this??? Tends to only occur when I push the power section of my amp a little harder and more excessively in certain areas of the fretboard (particularly for certain pitches in the upper registers) but is really distracting since they really tend to overtake the fundamentals when you play. I'm kinda assuming (hoping that the tones are a result of faulty or microphonic power tubes (I just ordered some that will hopefully alleviate the problem but I was wondering if this type of experience is common. If anyone could direct me I would be grateful.
Thanks

Post Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:36 pm
Meole Orange Master

Posts: 1115
Location: Canada
What amp and speakers are you using?

Post Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:34 pm
fiveightandten Orange Master

Posts: 3316
Location: Connecticut, USA
Most amps ghost to some degree...and usually it's in the upper register of the guitar.

If it's an older amp, recapping it may help...but not always.

Have you tried it with multiple cabs to rule out cone cry?

-Nick
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Post Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:14 pm
Jayson New Member

Posts: 20
Location: USA
AD 30TC...so V30s...I've had it less than a year and I love it, but the "ghosting" if you will is really much too overbearingly unmusical and distracting to disregard. There are three guitarists (all playing combos right now including an AC30 and a Bogner combo) in my group, so we try to keep our stage level as manageable as possible (around 125-127 SPL about 3 inches from the cone). So I really don't notice until those rare occasions when we let the amps open up a little more...I'll be doing some experimenting until my tubes get in with other cabs, etc. and will possibly lay down some example recordings for everyone to examine.
Again thanks guys,
-J

Post Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:36 pm
Jayson New Member

Posts: 20
Location: USA
Nick,
I haven't yet gotten a chance to hook it up to some other cabs, but can you explain the term cone cry? What should I be listening for to identify it? Even though it is rather unlikely for it to play much of a factor I hope. Again thanks for help guys...
~J


Edited by - Jayson on 18 Oct 2004 20:37:49

Post Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:13 pm
Andy H. Lord of Orange

Posts: 10006
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I haven't yet gotten a chance to hook it up to some other cabs, but can you explain the term cone cry?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>Try here:
http://www.webervst.com/spterm.html

Andy.
Only dimly aware of existence, a dimly existing awareness...

You get a wonderful view from the point of no return.

Post Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:32 pm
Jayson New Member

Posts: 20
Location: USA
Nick and Andy...thanks again for all the info (users like you are what make this forum what it is)...when I used the term ghost notes I wasn't aware that it was an actual technical term, but simply seemed to be an accurate description of what I was experiencing.

I haven't yet tried it with other cabs yet but was unable to recreate the problem alone in my studio the other day. I really would hope that the vintage 30s that are less than a year old would suffer from somethings such as cone cry, so I really let it rip and didn't notice any ghosting like I've experienced before. It only seems to occur when I'm either performing or practicing in a group setting. The only difference may be that the amp didn't really have enough time to heat up to full temperature. I'm not sure if the heat would create a similar phenomenon, so if anyone has any guidance let me know. I may look into installing a fan just in case though.

Thanks again guys...I'll try to mic up the cab during our next rehearsal so that I can take a few clips of the ghosting in action, but hopefully the problem is nothing more than just a fluke. But it really happens too consistently to seem this way.

Best,
~J

Post Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:28 pm
bassdrop Orange Master

Posts: 2405
Location: USA
Okay so this is old but I thought it worth mentioning that I remember reading in GP ten or so years ago that Class A and near Class A (Orange, Vox, etc.) would exhibit this ghosting effect all on their own regardless of the speaker or cab. They were reviewing the then new Vox AC30 reissue at the time and noticed the same phenomenon. When the reviewer called a technician at Vox he replied that it was inherent in all Class A tube circuits.

My other thought is that it would be a microphonic tube which can of course be tested by tapping the tubes (this mainly occurs in the preamp) with a pencil eraser with the amp powered up and turned up a bit. I would think that both of these would conditions would arise after thorough heating of the components.
mmmmmm drop

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Post Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:10 pm
bclaire Forum Moderator

Posts: 15714
Location: Outside Boston MA, USA

Another consideration: what kind of guitar are you using and how close are the pickups to the strings. Strats, in particular, are notorious for ghost notes when the pickups are adjusted too close to the strings...

Post Sun Nov 21, 2004 10:49 pm
Jayson New Member

Posts: 20
Location: USA
Billy,

I'm mostly playing through a Explorer reissue, occasionally a semi-hollow, tele or strat. The explorer is my main (favorite) guitar and the pickups haven't been adjusted from factory height. I only tend to notice the ghosting in a group setting after about 30-45 minutes of playing. It really doesn't add up since I've seen some of the settings you've recorded at and I'm not really getting anywhere near those levels...

Sorry for my lack of correspondence in actually trying to get the amp to exhibit the characteristics I've described and getting the amp mic'ed up and into Pro Tools. Hopefully, I'll get some free time soon...

But again thanks everyone for your insights...they've been extremely helpful. I've always loved these amplifiers but I have to admit that some of the sounds I've been describing are really rather troubling...

I've had numerous tube sets in the amp and I'm pretty sure that it's not microphonic haven't tapped any of the mullard reissues that I just put in to be sure though.

Best,
Jayson


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