skylark wrote:I still got one question though - would the extra 2 valves (a full quad) increase the OR120's headroom noticeably? I almost have the impression, judging by the very early breakup, that probably not, as it seems to be the case that the preamp is very gainy. THis is an amp that would really benefit from a Master volume i presume - especially for the cleans.
Oh, and i love compression in tube amps and i am really positively surprized that the OR120 compresses so much, even at low gain settings (therefore it has a very nice clean tone that already compresses a bit) - where does this amount of compression come from?
Actually I find that the OR120, while basically a dirty rock amp with a very abrupt transition to distortion, is a very
uncompressed amp.
Extremely so in fact!!!
Distortion and compression do usually go hand in hand, but don't
have to nearly as much as is usually the case. Vintage Oranges were one of the big exceptions to the normal rule I'd say.
(Having said that I've usually used it for bass, so deliberately fitted power valves with very late to distort ratings. If yours are much earlier distorting I can understand you thinking that and it'd also be a lot more forgiving to play.)
What I mean here by uncompressed is that these amps have a huge dynamic range, giving a much bigger dynamic response (from
quiet to
LOUD) to your picking than most amps ever will. Pick harder, clean or distorted, and they get noticeably louder. Much more compressed amps tend to distort more when you pick harder but without getting all that much louder.
Taken the other way round if you let a loud note or chord decay naturally you'll get much more sustain with a compressed amp. Uncompressed amps like the old ORs have much less natural sustain, the volume drops off quickly as the string vibrations die away. Listen to old Peter Green era Fleetwood Mac say and you'll hear that even at high stage volumes the notes didn't sustain that long. The tones are monster of course, but if you really need sustain you'd want to bung a nice compressor in front too.
I have the MV 'Overdrive' version, but the MV is a pretty early design, pretty primitive, and only really useful for taking things down a little. Cut the master much below about 8 / 10 and the tone goes quickly south. These amps were designed to be played pretty hard, back in the days when stage volumes were going crazy. And they really don't sound their best at all until run loud. If you have the chance to do that though, they are just awesome.
Running as an OR120 would take things up a couple of decibels. (2-3dB). But since you are basically going from very loud already you won't notice all that much difference if playing alone. It is in a band mix where a couple of decibels change gets more obvious. I can't imagine really needing it for guitar these days though, even OR80s are massively loud guitar amps.
Different story for bass where the clean headroom is pretty pitiful. They aren't loud bass amps, though very toneful indeed, especially if you do like a bit of drive in your sound. Used mine as my main bass amp live for many years. Once just to check the real difference I did run it live once as an OR80 for the first set, OR120 the 2nd. For that particular pub gig through a decent bass cab it went from not
quite loud enough to just about perfect.
The Hiwatt is another very uncompressed amp of course. And also stays much cleaner much longer - though as I say that's
not the same thing!
Yeah, you are right, even a 50 can sound massive. The sounds are just so sweet yet solid. (FWIW I find they also sound exceptionally good run quietly, bigger and 'louder' than any other valve amps I know at the same actual volume levels - if you know what I mean!)
That is down to both the tones and more especially the dynamics again. Because a note's initial attack largely defines how loud the note 'sounds', if an amp has the dynamic range to deliver the attack with real uncompressed punch it'll definitely sound much louder and punchier. Some amps can punch way above their rated output wattage that way. I generally prefer relatively uncompressed amps for the way I play. For both guitar and bass, I just love using dramatic loud / soft dynamics. And the DR designs were also really efficient at keeping a good strong 'optimal gain' signal right through from input to output. (Again 'gain' isn't technically the same thing as distortion!) Wonderful amps, I'd say that (with the right pedals etc.) there is probably NOTHING you can't do well with a Hiwatt. Apart from sounding like a really good valve amp they are so versatile they don't really have a signature sound of their own as such. (Well, not until pushed really hard and actually overdriving nicely anyway, as on The Who's 'Live at Leeds' say when both Townshend and Entwistle did just that with their all Hiwatt rigs. A lot of the time the bass is making string scrape 'rhythm guitar' type sounds too, very clever. Again though classic sounds, but relatively short sustain!)
Yes the old ORs are
way more versatile than most people realise, but you'd have to try hard to lose that trademark 'Orange tonality'. I'd actually rate the Hiwatt as the sweetest sounding most versatile amp I own, but again I'm talking with external drive sounds. For true cleans it just can't be bettered though IMO. Best musical instrument amp design ever made? Strong contender I'd say, gets my own vote anyway.
The Vox... Well I really hope the transformers are original and healthy - they are the beating heart of any classic valve amp. That being so once put properly back to spec you should have a fun ride. (By 'Copper top' you just meaning the early '60s control panel BTW, or you mean 'top' as in a head amp like mine, not a combo?)
The controls will also give you endless hours of fun getting new sounds. Especially if you link the 3 channels together using the 3 volumes as alternative 'tone balance controls'.
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Also very punchy amps, sounding
way louder than their 33W odd rating through good speakers. Secret there (apart from the tonality again) is the cathode biasing which gives a special sort of compression. Kind of gives you the best of both worlds, note attacks punch through but then the biasing shifts with the input signal and gives you nice sustain too. Neat neat neat! They won't actually max out that much above the 33W rating but a healthy AC30 2x12 with the alnico drivers will still usually blow a 50W Marshall / G12M 'Greenback' 4x12 away. Another amp you can easily cover most bases with BTW. Wonderful touch / feel / tones, something to look forward to!
BTW pictures are pretty much required here, otherwise nobody will believe we are talking real amps at all!
Andy.
