RV50 + G12M?

somedude · Post by **somedude** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:58 am

How does the RV50 jive with Greenbacks? I'm thinking about unloading the V30s I have in my 4x12 and replacing them with G12Ms.

dsouth · Post by **dsouth** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:59 am

I don't know if this helps, but I played the RV50 through an Orange 40 year anniversary 4x12 Cab w/G12H speakers. The "H" makes me think these aren't GREENBACKS? Double check this.

Results: The V30's loaded in the standard cab sounded much better than the G12H in the 40th Anniversary cab. The V30's could handle low end responce, had higher volume, and never seemed to distort uncontrolably. The latter seemed to have not been strong enough for the amp-- ultimatley this leaves you limiting your amp potential. BTW, I was doing most testing on the dirty channel: Volume: 8, Gain: varying from 5-8. The lower palm muting notes would rattle the G12H's. The V30's had no problem holding these same palm muting notes.

Now, I am not sure how different sounding (if any) the G12H's are to the Greenbacks?

somedude · Post by **somedude** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:09 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dsouth
Now, I am not sure how different sounding (if any) the G12H's are to the Greenbacks?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Totally.

G12Ms (Greenbacks) are low powered speakers with early break up and lots of midrange.

G12H are higher powered, louder, and emphasize the top and bottom end (but are not scooped).

Also, I probably wouldn't judge G12Hs by that cab... assuming it was new and the speakers weren't broken in, they're going to sound like sh*t until they soften up.

somedude · Post by **somedude** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:17 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dsouth

Now, I am not sure how different sounding (if any) the G12H's are to the Greenbacks?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

On a side note, that EVH cab you talked about in another thread is loaded with 20w Greenbacks.

Orphin · Post by **Orphin** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:13 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by somedude
 How does the RV50 jive with Greenbacks? I'm thinking about unloading the V30s I have in my 4x12 and replacing them with G12Ms.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
 
Get the Heritage speaker instead of regular greenbacks. It'll be worth every penny!

I didn't know whether to get the G12M or G12H when I swapped drivers in my 212, but I chose the G12H because I think they have a little more attack than the M's. I am very satisfied!

Check out Lean business for the worlds best prices on speakers:
http://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/

somedude · Post by **somedude** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:12 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Orphin
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by somedude
 How does the RV50 jive with Greenbacks? I'm thinking about unloading the V30s I have in my 4x12 and replacing them with G12Ms.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
 
Get the Heritage speaker instead of regular greenbacks. It'll be worth every penny!

I didn't know whether to get the G12M or G12H when I swapped drivers in my 212, but I chose the G12H because I think they have a little more attack than the M's. I am very satisfied!

Check out Lean business for the worlds best prices on speakers:
http://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This cab will be combined with a G12T-75 cab. The G12Ts have the top and bottom covered, but I'd like something (other than V30s) to fill in the midrange.

Orphin · Post by **Orphin** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:38 pm

An Heritage Greenback would do that nicely.
My tip is to go H if you play more rock oriented music, and M for slower music, blues, classic rock etc.

jamison162 · Post by **jamison162** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:42 pm

If you want Greenback tone (but better IMO) go with a pair of Eminence Private Jacks, they are 50 watts each. I have them in my open back 2x12 and they rock hard. Stellar clean tones, vintage organic breakup, very woody, good bass response, singing alnico sounding lead tones. Blows away V30's IMO for classic rock and everything but metal.

dsouth · Post by **dsouth** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:19 pm

I left out the "break in" factor-- good call. I like most sound clips of cabs loaded with Greenbacks I've heard when I was down this path a few months ago trying to improve my Marshall cab. Full disclosure, I've always bought used gear in the past. Do some speakers "break in" better than others?

fastboy · Post by **fastboy** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:39 pm

Interesting thread.

I have some Celestion Heritage speakers in an old dead Marshall JTM combo which sounded fantastic. I am thinking of testing them in my PPC212 OB and therefore running Vintage 30's in my Rockerverb combo and Heritages in the extenstion cab.

On the Greenback front, I never personally got on with Greenbacks and always found them sounding like the poor relation to the heritage.

somedude · Post by **somedude** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:53 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dsouth
 I left out the "break in" factor-- good call. I like most sound clips of cabs loaded with Greenbacks I've heard when I was down this path a few months ago trying to improve my Marshall cab. Full disclosure, I've always bought used gear in the past. Do some speakers "break in" better than others?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I find new speakers to be thin and harsh sounding. I haven't tried all speakers however, including G12M and G12H (hence this thread). I have found that once you put about 5-7 hours worth of loud guitar through them they start to soften up, and the difference can be pretty extreme (depending on the speaker). After that, they keep improving for about the next 30 hours... after which they're pretty much broken in, though they will keep on subtly changing over the next several months.

dsouth · Post by **dsouth** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:36 am

I can't wait to get through the break through period -- not that I am not happy with the sound, but to think it only gets better

By the way-- I am currently playing through my new Orange 4x12 cab and for s---s, I have been plugging into my 4x12 Marshall loaded with typical Celstion 75 watter's. Stereo rips!

QUESTION: am I at risk in plugging into my Marshall (8ohm MONO, I think) and my Orange (16 ohm)? On the back panel of my RV50, I plug both speakers into the two 8 ohm slots. Is this correct?

It plays fine. This setup loses a little volume by sending the signal to both cabs, but that's not to say it still CRANKS up when I twist the Volume knob. I have just played like this in really short increments. I've fried an amp in the past due to doing something similar-- don't want to re-live that mistake on this amp. Suggestions welcome.

a.hun · Post by **a.hun** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:23 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by somedude
 How does the RV50 jive with Greenbacks? I'm thinking about unloading the V30s I have in my 4x12 and replacing them with G12Ms.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">GREENBACKS EH?

Yeah somedude, many people these days do mean the G12M, but all of the various Celestion models with green magnet back covers were equally 'Greenbacks'. And they sounded just the same as they did when fitted with different coloured plastic covers instead.

'M' and 'H' just refer to the magnet weights, medium and heavy and they sound pretty different. As I guess you know from your second post!

There were also 'S' (small) and 'L' (light) magnet models in fact.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Andy H.
(http://forum.orangeamps.com/viewtopic.php?t=3916)
 ...Although 'Greenback' is used these days as a generic term for the G12-M which was (usually anyway) a 25 watter, other models were also available. (And a couple are again as the Celestion Heritage models).

In days of old you could find G12-L, S, M, and H variants with green coloured back covers. The different designations referred to the magnet weights (or sizes), ie:
L = light - 20 ounces (approx)
S = small - 27oz
M = medium - 35oz
H = heavy - 50oz

The various models also came with a variety of different cones which would change the sound, and with different coloured backs eg as 'creambacks', and 'blackbacks', which wouldn't.

I hope that Celestions recent reissues will get some people out of the habit of calling just the 25 watters 'Greenbacks'.

Andy.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">'Greenbacks' is a really big subject. You maybe don't want to go reading this thread all at one sitting! [:p]
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... adid=67646

My own opinion is that the G12M on its own wouldn't be the ideal driver for an RV type amp for very many people. Soundwise the amp does a lot of different stuff really well, including a lot of things the G12M simply isn't that great at. With the right amp they are great speakers, but mainly if you are looking for fuzzy middy creamy sort of sounds with pretty early speaker cone distortion. They are just too soft and flabby for the tighter more modern sort of sounds, and certainly aren't the best at handling high gain sounds. Want tight lows and articulate highs? Wrong speaker! These guys are all about lovely warm mids, and don't have nearly so much top or bottom as most other guitar speakers out there. Also they are very 'loose' sounding, and yeah they'll breakup pretty quickly as volume increases.

The G12H30 is much more likely to be a great allrounder, especially if you just want to smooth out the V.30s typical peaky upper mids. They give a great 120w 4x12 cab and to my ears work great with Oranges. More '70s Rock' compared to the G12M25s '60s fuzz is the way I hear it, though yeah the 'M's do do great lower gain 'feel' sounds - great for bluesy stuff for instance.

But to answer YOUR question...

If you want a 'G12M Greenback type' sound to fill out the midrange then you want to think about the Celestion G12-65 IMO. That is basically much like a higher powered tighter sounding version of the G12M25, exactly what you are looking for I reckon. I'm not a great fan of the G12T75 on its own with Orange amps, but I think the combination with the G12-65 would likely be a very good one.

Unless you luck out on a good set of oldies it is going to cost you though. Alongside a 20w G12M 'Greenback' and the bass version 30w G12H 'Greenback', it is the third of the (expensive) Celestion 'Heritage' series.
http://professional.celestion.com/guita ... .asp?ID=32

Here is another thread probably worth checking out for you:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=86938

May not have green plastic on the back, but it is exactly what you need IMO.

Hope that helps you get your sound anyway!

aNDyH.

[EDIT: Oh b***er, I'm only about a month too late...]

a.hun · Post by **a.hun** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:31 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dsouth
 
QUESTION: am I at risk in plugging into my Marshall (8ohm MONO, I think) and my Orange (16 ohm)? On the back panel of my RV50, I plug both speakers into the two 8 ohm slots. Is this correct?

It plays fine. This setup loses a little volume by sending the signal to both cabs, but that's not to say it still CRANKS up when I twist the Volume knob. I have just played like this in really short increments. I've fried an amp in the past due to doing something similar-- don't want to re-live that mistake on this amp. Suggestions welcome.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Well first you want to make sure of the Marshall cabs impedance. Guessing isn't good with impedances and valve amps.

If it is 8 ohms though you are pretty unlikely to do any damage. You'll get a combined total of 5.33 ohms which is a pretty safe moderate mismatch from the 8 ohm outputs.

Covered that here:
http://forum.orangeamps.com/viewtopic.php?t=32594

aNDyH.

somedude · Post by **somedude** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:07 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by a.hun
[EDIT: Oh b***er, I'm only about a month too late...]

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Not really. I still haven't bought them yet.

I was originally looking at replacing the V30s and keeping the G12Ts, but I've since changed my mind and am currently leaning towards keeping the V30s and ditching the G12Ts for a set of G12Hs.

RV50 + G12M?

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